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Mr. Football

Commonwealthsports

Commonwealthsports

KP All-Pro
Dec 11, 2012
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Was on the Jeff Bidwell show this morning and we talked about the Mr. Football race.

It's a weird race right now in my eyes.

Wouldn't feel right to give it to Damien Harris just because he really didn't play this year.

Elijah Sindelar is a more viable option, though his injury and lack of a championship may hurt him.

What about Cody Crider? I mean come on he's carried Graves to this point and really been a workhorse ironman for the Eagles. I think he at least deserves an honest look and thought.

Lastly, Beau Hoge should also be considered. He's just electric. I love watching him play.

What say ye masses?

This post was edited on 12/2 10:40 AM by Commonwealthsports
 
I would give it to Crider. Everybody knows he's a great running back, but I think he's even better as a defensive end.
 
If we are gonna give it to the best player in the state, I would give it to Damien Harris.

If we are gonna give it to the player who had the best season and helped his team the most, I would give it to Mr. Crider.

Elijah Sindelar doesn't even deserve to be on the list, in all honesty. He didn't deserve to be First Team All State last year and he DEFINITELY doesn't deserve Mr. Football. Think about the diminishment of skills that would be apparent if we gave him this honor. Not to say that Mr. Sindelar is not a talented player, but is he as good as Nacarius Fant was? James Quick? No.

I apologize for the rant, but in my opinion Elijah is just overrated. IF he were to win, it would just be another case of how size will always trump talent in world of football.

This post was edited on 12/2 12:45 PM by LilyOfTheValley
 
Originally posted by LilyOfTheValley:
If we are gonna give it to the best player in the state, I would give it to Damien Harris.

If we are gonna give it to the player who had the best season and helped his team the most, I would give it to Mr. Crider.

Elijah Sindelar doesn't even deserve to be on the list, in all honesty. He didn't deserve to be First Team All State last year and he DEFINITELY doesn't deserve Mr. Football. Think about the diminishment of skills that would be apparent if we gave him this honor. Not to say that Mr. Sindelar is not a talented player, but is he as good as Nacarius Fant was? James Quick? No.

I apologize for the rant, but in my opinion Elijah is just overrated. IF he were to win, it would just be another case of how size will always trump talent in world of football.

This post was edited on 12/2 12:45 PM by LilyOfTheValley
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seriously my jaw just dropped on the Sindelar comments. Why do you think that of Elijah? (Just want your honest opinion, not bashing you)
 
I have always felt that Elijah was overrated. I believe this is just a case of being a big fish in a small pond. It is fairly easy to put up almost 51 points per game on teams like Ohio County, Christian County (Speaking of this year only. The Colonels are usually pretty consistent, this was an off year for them) and a HORRENDOUS Fort Campbell team. When he finally went up against a solid team (Mayfield), Elijah put up a measly 12 points. And then loses to Murray, a team they should have beaten, in the playoffs. Murray is good, but they should not be able to hold a player like that to just 28 points.

Maybe I am wrong and he is the begotten son of Kentucky Football, but I don't see it.

Is he a good player? Yes. Is he great? Ehh, probably.

But he just doesn't deserve Mr. Football.
 
-----I agree with Lilly. I have watched him numerous times over the years and most of those big numbers have come against lesser competition. Of course he is a very good player but not Mr. Football. I wish him well, hope he recovers from his injury and has a successful career at Purdue-----
 
Crider has rushed for over 2,500 yards. He has been on the field most of the time defensively as well. He is second on his team in total tackles and solo tackles.

His problem is that he is located in the Jackson Purchase. Most of those who have a vote probably can't tell you where the Jackson Purchase is and can't tell you the county seat of Graves County.

If the Mr. Football award is to go to the best college prospect in the state them Damien Harris is the man. When you have Alabama and Ohio State as two of your final three choices that is impressive.

If Mr. Football is to go to the guy that is the best all around football player....have to go with Cody Crider this year.
 
Just so everyone is clear....Sindelar isn't getting it.

He is going to freaking Purdue.
 
Originally posted by LilyOfTheValley:
Murray is good, but they should not be able to hold a player like that to just 28 points.
Click to expand...
They should if said player blows out his knee in the 1st quarter, ya goof.
 
Originally posted by macdon:
Crider has rushed for over 2,500 yards. He has been on the field most of the time defensively as well. He is second on his team in total tackles and solo tackles.

His problem is that he is located in the Jackson Purchase. Most of those who have a vote probably can't tell you where the Jackson Purchase is and can't tell you the county seat of Graves County.

If the Mr. Football award is to go to the best college prospect in the state them Damien Harris is the man. When you have Alabama and Ohio State as two of your final three choices that is impressive.

If Mr. Football is to go to the guy that is the best all around football player....have to go with Cody Crider this year.
Click to expand...
You may be right Mac, but i'm trying to help his campaign this week. i love football in the far west. I don't know if you all remember me gushing after I went to McCracken's 7v7, but I was giddy like a schoolchild.

That was the first, and only, time I saw Crider live. I was so impressed I put him in the rankings that next week.

Crider isn't just doing this because of who he plays, he's an all-around stud. I got to see his athleticism first hand during the passing tournament and it was down-right impressive for a big buster kind of guy. Shows up well on tape, too. Not sure why he only has two FCS offers. As an athlete I think he's a can't miss for all the non-power conference schools. Looking at you, WKU.
 
Best Player? Damien Harris- Madison Southern
Best College Prospect w/ Best Season? Elijah Sindelar- Caldwell County
Best Player on the Best Team? Donald Brooks- Trinity
Best Career and Post Season Achievements? Austin Hatfield- Belfry
Most Electric Player To Win a Championship? Beau Hoge- Highlands
Most Valuable To Their Team? (TIE) Hatfield- Belfry Cody Crider- Graves County
 
Originally posted by EKUAlum05:
Best Player? Damien Harris- Madison Southern
Best College Prospect w/ Best Season? Elijah Sindelar- Caldwell County
Best Player on the Best Team? Donald Brooks- Trinity
Best Career and Post Season Achievements? Austin Hatfield- Belfry
Most Electric Player To Win a Championship? Beau Hoge- Highlands
Most Valuable To Their Team? (TIE) Hatfield- Belfry Cody Crider- Graves County
Click to expand...
I think this is pretty correct.

Here's my thinking:

Can't give it to Harris -- didn't play enough this year.

Can't give it to Sindelar -- never had a big game over quality opponent.

Can't give it to Brooks -- I'm not sure he's the best guy on Trinity.

Can't give it to Hatfield -- doesn't have the stats.

Could give it to Crider -- he carried his team this year and put up numbers doing it.

Give it to Hoge -- has crazy stats, fun to watch and had his Mr. Footabll moment during the state championship bringing his team back.
 
My vote would go to Crider. Simple reason really. He was a beast on BOTH sides of the ball on a more consistent basis. The others are good at what they do, don't get me wrong. Crider just does everything very well, more universal. Harris is more talented on offense for sure, I just don't think he deserves it after sitting out most of the season and tanking in 1st round of the playoffs.
 
I can not get over the bashing of Sindelar. I do not have a dog in this fight but just feel like giving my opinion. Most would agree he is not as good as some people say but that is because there are some that say he is the greatest of all time. That is not even close. He is definitely a good QB and would have success on any team in this state. I haven't seen a better passer in the state this year. I think Hoge is a better overall QB because of his toughness and ability to also make things happen on the ground but passing wise I would say they are even. Sindelar has the ability to run and is excellent at making people miss but he just does not want to run. It will be interesting to see who wins the award. I think several people are deserving. To my point of posting though, Sindelar might not be as good as some people think he is but he is definitely an excellent high school QB and does not deserve a bashing. I wish him well in his recovery and time at Purdue.
 
Originally posted by SportsNobody:
I can not get over the bashing of Sindelar. I do not have a dog in this fight but just feel like giving my opinion. Most would agree he is not as good as some people say but that is because there are some that say he is the greatest of all time. That is not even close. He is definitely a good QB and would have success on any team in this state. I haven't seen a better passer in the state this year. I think Hoge is a better overall QB because of his toughness and ability to also make things happen on the ground but passing wise I would say they are even. Sindelar has the ability to run and is excellent at making people miss but he just does not want to run. It will be interesting to see who wins the award. I think several people are deserving. To my point of posting though, Sindelar might not be as good as some people think he is but he is definitely an excellent high school QB and does not deserve a bashing. I wish him well in his recovery and time at Purdue.
Click to expand...
I really haven't seen any bashing. Just a little criticism, which seems to be warranted if you look at his stats over his career espically in game vs. even decent competition.
 
Originally posted by Commonwealthsports:
Originally posted by EKUAlum05:
Best Player? Damien Harris- Madison Southern
Best College Prospect w/ Best Season? Elijah Sindelar- Caldwell County
Best Player on the Best Team? Donald Brooks- Trinity
Best Career and Post Season Achievements? Austin Hatfield- Belfry
Most Electric Player To Win a Championship? Beau Hoge- Highlands
Most Valuable To Their Team? (TIE) Hatfield- Belfry Cody Crider- Graves County
Click to expand...
I think this is pretty correct.

Here's my thinking:

Can't give it to Harris -- didn't play enough this year.

Can't give it to Sindelar -- never had a big game over quality opponent.

Can't give it to Brooks -- I'm not sure he's the best guy on Trinity.

Can't give it to Hatfield -- doesn't have the stats.

Could give it to Crider -- he carried his team this year and put up numbers doing it.

Give it to Hoge -- has crazy stats, fun to watch and had his Mr. Footabll moment during the state championship bringing his team back.
Click to expand...
You are short selling Hatfield a lot saying he doesn't have the stats. People laud Crider for being a two way player but forget that Hatfield was as well.

1600 yards rushing and 26 TD from the Fullback Position. Belfry faced a 9 or 10 man Front every game and he averaged over 8 yards a carry running into the teeth of defenses. Probably the best true FB to come out of KY in a long time.
Back to Back Finals MVP
100 yards Rushing in 3 Straight Finals (Don't even know when the last time that happened if ever)
100 Tackles This Season as a LB

You mention the Mr. Football moment... with Hatfield is it is 235 yards rushing to end Belfry's losing streak against Central.

The critique with Hatfield is not stats... if anything it's that he doesn't have the "flash" factor and isn't a Major College Prospect.

To me Hatfield > Crider... they both excelled as two way players and put up big numbers... but Hatfield has two rings on his fingers and led his team to the Finals all 3 years he was a Starter.


In my eyes:
1. Harris- Best player...bar none.Shortened season or not there is no denying he was a generational talent and it was clear that with a health Harris Madison Southern was a Top 10 team... without him healthy they were a bottom 10 team in their class.
2. Hoge- Electric HS player with a Title and a Runner-Up. Has some big name clout going to BYU. Best player on the 2nd best team.
3. Hatfield- The sentimental champion. Lifetime achievement winner.
4. Crider- Most valuable to his team's success
5. Sindelair- Never won the big one
6. Brooks- The only thing he has going for him is he played for clearly the best team in the state.

This post was edited on 12/9 1:54 PM by EKUAlum05
 
Originally posted by EKUAlum05:
Originally posted by Commonwealthsports:
Originally posted by EKUAlum05:
Best Player? Damien Harris- Madison Southern
Best College Prospect w/ Best Season? Elijah Sindelar- Caldwell County
Best Player on the Best Team? Donald Brooks- Trinity
Best Career and Post Season Achievements? Austin Hatfield- Belfry
Most Electric Player To Win a Championship? Beau Hoge- Highlands
Most Valuable To Their Team? (TIE) Hatfield- Belfry Cody Crider- Graves County
Click to expand...
I think this is pretty correct.

Here's my thinking:

Can't give it to Harris -- didn't play enough this year.

Can't give it to Sindelar -- never had a big game over quality opponent.

Can't give it to Brooks -- I'm not sure he's the best guy on Trinity.

Can't give it to Hatfield -- doesn't have the stats.

Could give it to Crider -- he carried his team this year and put up numbers doing it.

Give it to Hoge -- has crazy stats, fun to watch and had his Mr. Footabll moment during the state championship bringing his team back.
Click to expand...
You are short selling Hatfield a lot saying he doesn't have the stats. People laud Crider for being a two way player but forget that Hatfield was as well.

1600 yards rushing and 26 TD from the Fullback Position. Belfry faced a 9 or 10 man Front every game and he averaged over 8 yards a carry running into the teeth of defenses. Probably the best true FB to come out of KY in a long time.
Back to Back Finals MVP
100 yards Rushing in 3 Straight Finals (Don't even know when the last time that happened if ever)
100 Tackles This Season as a LB

You mention the Mr. Football moment... with Hatfield is it is 235 yards rushing to end Belfry's losing streak against Central.

The critique with Hatfield is not stats... if anything it's that he doesn't have the "flash" factor and isn't a Major College Prospect.

To me Hatfield > Crider... they both excelled as two way players and put up big numbers... but Hatfield has two rings on his fingers and led his team to the Finals all 3 years he was a Starter.


In my eyes:
1. Harris- Best player...bar none.Shortened season or not there is no denying he was a generational talent and it was clear that with a health Harris Madison Southern was a Top 10 team... without him healthy they were a bottom 10 team in their class.
2. Hoge- Electric HS player with a Title and a Runner-Up. Has some big name clout going to BYU. Best player on the 2nd best team.
3. Hatfield- The sentimental champion. Lifetime achievement winner.
4. Crider- Most valuable to his team's success
5. Sindelair- Never won the big one
6. Brooks- The only thing he has going for him is he played for clearly the best team in the state.

This post was edited on 12/9 1:54 PM by EKUAlum05
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Don't forget what supports Hatfield. That well coached offensive line. Watch some of his best runs -- his oline is at the second level and so on. Hatfield was spectaular throughout his career but so was his line.

His stats were good, but they're still not jumping off the page, though I will give a lot of credit to that 100yd games in three stright finals -- that's awesome. Also against the schedule he saw, like Sindelar, those stats shouldn't carry as much weight.

But I agree with you his doesn't carry the same star power as the others outside the confines of Belfry, Ky.

I'm the opposite of you on the equation:

Hoge>Crider>Hatfield

Hoge's moment was better, he's got over 50 touchdowns on the year, he had a sportscenter top play and most of all his father can tie the best Double Windsor known to man.
DM_090513_NFL_HOGEonTAYLOR.jpg


This post was edited on 12/10 9:44 AM by Commonwealthsports
 
Originally posted by SECHonk:
Originally posted by Wildcat_18:
Harris is more talented on offense for sure,
Click to expand...
You think? I don't know man. Pretty bold statement there.
Click to expand...
I can see why you would question that. I think Crider is tougher, mentally and physically. I just think Harris is more naturally gifted. There's a difference in being hurt and injured. You would see Crider play hurt...I'm not sure you see Harris play hurt. That's the difference for me on why I would give it to Crider over Harris.
 
Originally posted by Wildcat_18:

Originally posted by SECHonk:
Originally posted by Wildcat_18:
Harris is more talented on offense for sure,
Click to expand...
You think? I don't know man. Pretty bold statement there.
Click to expand...
I can see why you would question that. I think Crider is tougher, mentally and physically. I just think Harris is more naturally gifted. There's a difference in being hurt and injured. You would see Crider play hurt...I'm not sure you see Harris play hurt. That's the difference for me on why I would give it to Crider over Harris.
Click to expand...
First off, your nose for sarcasm is way off. Second, Honk, you're great, never stop posting. Third, you make no sense or point of argument here.

You'd give someone the award because they're tougher and play through getting hurt? Harris has gotten hurt and came back into games several times, but that's no reason to give him the award. Also that's a completely false statement you just made.

This post was edited on 12/10 10:50 AM by Commonwealthsports
 
Originally posted by Commonwealthsports:
Originally posted by Wildcat_18:

Originally posted by SECHonk:
Originally posted by Wildcat_18:
Harris is more talented on offense for sure,
Click to expand...
You think? I don't know man. Pretty bold statement there.
Click to expand...
I can see why you would question that. I think Crider is tougher, mentally and physically. I just think Harris is more naturally gifted. There's a difference in being hurt and injured. You would see Crider play hurt...I'm not sure you see Harris play hurt. That's the difference for me on why I would give it to Crider over Harris.
Click to expand...
First off, your nose for sarcasm is way off. Second, Honk, you're great, never stop posting. Third, you make no sense or point of argument here.

You'd give someone the award because they're tougher and play through getting hurt? Harris has gotten hurt and came back into games several times, but that's no reason to give him the award. Also that's a completely false statement you just made.

This post was edited on 12/10 10:50 AM by Commonwealthsports
Click to expand...
Pot, meet kettle. Finally, you get a look in the mirror. Madison Southern wasn't good without Harris and they wasn't good with Harris. Crider had a better year statistically, he had a better run in the playoffs, and he was definitely tougher than Harris. Crider was a GAM (I'm assuming you know what that means) on BOTH sides of the ball. Crider takes his beatings and very rarely do you see him leave the game. Harris leaves games often by getting banged up or rattled. Harris is good at what he does, but he is limited to one position. As far as Mr. Football goes, if Harris wins it, it's a pure publicity stunt. Why? Because it just makes sense to give the #1 running back in America that award.
 
Don't forget what supports Hatfield. That well coached offensive line. Watch some of his best runs -- his oline is at the second level and so on. Hatfield was spectaular throughout his career but so was his line.

His stats were good, but they're still not jumping off the page, though I will give a lot of credit to that 100yd games in three stright finals -- that's awesome. Also against the schedule he saw, like Sindelar, those stats shouldn't carry as much weight.

But I agree with you his doesn't carry the same star power as the others outside the confines of Belfry, Ky.

I'm the opposite of you on the equation:

Hoge>Crider>Hatfield

Hoge's moment was better, he's got over 50 touchdowns on the year, he had a sportscenter top play and most of all his father can tie the best Double Windsor known to man.


This post was edited on 12/10 9:44 AM by Commonwealthsports
Click to expand...
Belfry's line is very good... but Highlands is just as adept at pass blocking as Belfry is at run blocking. In addition Hoge also had Alex Veneman helping him out. Over 1500 yards receiving and a can't miss 1st Team All-State player.

There were plays Hatfield had linemen 5 yards downfield...but there were even more plays where he shed initial contact at the LOS and broke 2 or 3 more tackles turning what should have been a "no Gain" into a sizable gain.

Watch Hatfield's highlights against Southwestern, Lawrence County, Henry Clay, and Russell (for that matter basically any game).. the amount of Yards After Contact is staggering.

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/2244865/highlights

Granted I agree Belfry did not play the same schedule as a Trinity or Highlands... it is not the same as a Caldwell County.Belfry was far from playing a weak schedule.


Henry Clay was a Top 10-15 6A team all year
CAK was a top 5 3A Team in Tennessee
Southwestern was a Top 5 5A Team
Pikeville was a Top 5 1A team
Johnson Central was a Top 7 Team in 4A
Russell was a Top 10 3A team
Central obviously was the 2nd best 3A Team

I would argue it was definitely a stronger schedule than Caldwell or Madison Southern and right up alongside Graves with the slight edge going to Graves because they faced Bowling Green.


With that said...I still don't think Hatfield is truly Mr. Football..but neither is Crider to me...I still say it is Damien Harris. Had Harris played for a Belfry, Trinity, or Highlands imagine what we would have done. Instead he played for a very bad team and had it not been for an injury (from being a workhorse mind you) still would have made them respectable.
 
Good grief could you two get off the Crider kid's jockstrap for a minute? The best player in the state BY FAAAAAAAR is not Cory Crider for God's sake; it's Damian Harris. . . . by a mile. Not even close. Damian Harris will likely play on Sundays and for this state is a generational level talent. Cody Crider is a good HS football player for Kentucky. He'll be another number at SIfreakingU, with all due respect to the kid.
 
Originally posted by Wildcat_18:


Originally posted by SECHonk:

Originally posted by Wildcat_18:
Harris is more talented on offense for sure,
Click to expand...
You think? I don't know man. Pretty bold statement there.
Click to expand...
I just think Harris is more naturally gifted.

I'm not sure you see Harris play hurt.
Click to expand...
(1) Surely you jest. Harris more naturally gifted? Get outta here!

(2) You know this how?

(3) Stop posting
 
Award should go to Caldwell's Sindelar. State record 144 passing TD along with 12,637 passing yards. The Hoge kid from Highlands is deserving as well. Both of these young men had great high school careers and senior seasons.
 
Originally posted by Wildcat_18:


Originally posted by Commonwealthsports:

Originally posted by Wildcat_18:


Originally posted by SECHonk:

Originally posted by Wildcat_18:
Harris is more talented on offense for sure,
Click to expand...
You think? I don't know man. Pretty bold statement there.
Click to expand...
I can see why you would question that. I think Crider is tougher, mentally and physically. I just think Harris is more naturally gifted. There's a difference in being hurt and injured. You would see Crider play hurt...I'm not sure you see Harris play hurt. That's the difference for me on why I would give it to Crider over Harris.
Click to expand...
First off, your nose for sarcasm is way off. Second, Honk, you're great, never stop posting. Third, you make no sense or point of argument here.

You'd give someone the award because they're tougher and play through getting hurt? Harris has gotten hurt and came back into games several times, but that's no reason to give him the award. Also that's a completely false statement you just made.


This post was edited on 12/10 10:50 AM by Commonwealthsports
Click to expand...
Pot, meet kettle. Finally, you get a look in the mirror. Madison Southern wasn't good without Harris and they wasn't good with Harris. Crider had a better year statistically, he had a better run in the playoffs, and he was definitely tougher than Harris. Crider was a GAM (I'm assuming you know what that means) on BOTH sides of the ball. Crider takes his beatings and very rarely do you see him leave the game. Harris leaves games often by getting banged up or rattled. Harris is good at what he does, but he is limited to one position. As far as Mr. Football goes, if Harris wins it, it's a pure publicity stunt. Why? Because it just makes sense to give the #1 running back in America that award.
Click to expand...
I detect a tinge of racism with 18's constant bashing of Harris (black) and slurping of a wholly inferior player in Crider (white). Makes one wonder what his motive is.
 
Originally posted by SECHonk:
I detect a tinge of racism with 18's constant bashing of Harris (black) and slurping of a wholly inferior player in Crider (white). Makes one wonder what his motive is.
Click to expand...
I think you're racist for turning the debate into a racial issue. It's about Mr. Football! People are entitled to have an opinion, if you don't agree with it say why and then shut the hell up.
 
Oh snap! Good one! See you put that single brain cell into overdrive to come up with that one, rube.
 
Lets get this back on track-

Joining in on the discussion, how can we ignore the fact that Harris is the number one rated running back in the NATION ?
Do we look at in-state results only, or do we consider that he has the highest accolades of any RB in the country?
 
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